Why Eric Wedge should be fired (very long)

[tonyc]

Jason Smith was interviewing Jason Stark (both guys of ESPN) tonight (Sept.16th in the AM hrs) and Stark confirmed something I've believed about Eric Wedge; he said (something to the effect that) "teams at this time of year (BACKGROUND NOTE: he was speaking of Ned Yost's firing, so he was talking specifically about teams in the playoff hunt) take on the personalities of their managers - if the manager is tight, the team is tight..." Just more confirmation of what we ("Eric needs to go" people) have believed (for a long time) as to why Indians' teams "choke" with Eric at the helm in pressure situations. It's no secret that he's "tight" by nature (although less now generally than in his first few years) but NOW does this "tightness" rear it's ugly head at the most inopportune times (as far as Indians' fans are concerned [!] - like in playoff situations (no matter how hard Eric tries to give the impression that he's "calm and collected") as well as other pressure situations during the year?) It's becoming more clear to me that he doesn't have the calm, even-keeled personality (that he even realizes he needs!!) needed to be a world championship manager...now the question for me is: "When will Mark Shapiro figure this one out?" (I mean, come on! This has GOT to be the reason why the team chokes with expectations on them...IMO, it just makes too much sense to ignore! What other explanation "fits the facts" as well as this "theory", if you will?) Simple cause and effect: Wedge - "tight" = team - "tight"; Wedge - "loose" = team - "loose"!!

P.S.- You can cynically call this the "Vulcan mind-meld theory", if you want, but it explains a lot (regarding the Indians' history over the last 7 years with Wedge at the helm) and one of the best tests for the viability of a theory is it's "explanatory power"! Again, what theory explains more data than this one (regarding Wedge)?


UPDATE! (JUST FOUND (i.e.-a little later the same night) THIS LINK TO WHERE JON KRUK GIVES AN ALMOST IDENTICAL REASON TO JASON STARK AS TO WHY NED YOST WAS FIRED FROM MILWAUKEE (NOTE: this is about a 1 and 1/2 megabyte "mp3" file download (takes about 15 minutes to download with a "dialup" connection)):

http://podloc.andohs.net/dloadTrack.mp3 ... 8_kruk.mp3

[tonyc]

Some haunting similarities between the main problem with Ned Yost (and one of the main reasons, if not the main reason he was fired) and the main problem I see with Eric Wedge (i.e.-that his teams consistently play "tight" under pressure):

http://www.postcrescent.com/apps/pbcs.d ... 60596/1979
http://community.sportsbubbler.com/forums/t/58424.aspx

[Mike Woods column:] Milwaukee Brewers' big mistake was bringing back Ned Yost
September 16, 2008

It's not often when your ship is sinking that you decide the first thing you must do is toss the captain overboard.

A wise man would possess enough savvy not to let the captain anywhere near the controls in the first place.

But some lessons in life are hard, as Brewers owner Mark Attanasio is learning today.

Attanasio earns a fist-bump for jettisoning the tightly wound Ned Yost before his Brewers completely collapse and a kick in the shorts for not doing this sooner.

Like at the end of last season.

But instead of a pink slip after a late-season flop last year, Attanasio doubled down and gave his manager a contract extension, giving a whole new meaning to the term twin killing.

http://www.examiner.com/x-559-Baseball- ... 1-Ned-Yost
September 12, 7:09 PM
by Tony DeMarco, Baseball Examiner

From last place in July, the Astros have jumped to within three games of the scuffling-but-still-wildcard-leading Brewers, who are playing tight under their wound-too-tight manager Ned Yost.

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/in ... mons_peter

[from a Peter Gammons column]
Yost's gone, but Melvin blames himself
Monday, September 15, 2008
The Web site "Fire Ned Yost" will be happy. [NOTE: cf: http://www.firenedyost.com/index.php ] To be honest, the view from afar was that Ned Yost got increasingly tight as the fight for the wild card got tougher.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story ... id=3602861

GREENY [i.e.- Mike Greenberg of "Mike and Mike in the Morning"]: In blackjack, you can make the right play and still lose. Big moves are meant to shake things up. The Brewers thought Ned Yost's personality was part of the reason the team was playing tight. If Milwaukee makes the playoffs, the brass will look like geniuses.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=280926108

[from a game "recap" after the Brew Crew took the lead in the wildcard race with two games left in the season.]
But Milwaukee dropped 15 of 19 to begin the regular season's final month. Manager Ned Yost was fired and replaced with Sveum, leaving the Brewers in a desperate scramble to reach the postseason for the first time since 1982.
"It was like being in detention for a month, then your first day out for recess, just getting out there and having fun again and playing the game where it's fun," [Seth] McClung said. "We're having fun right now."


[MY COMMENTS]
In Wedge's informal talk with radio media people on Tuesday, he still seemed oblivious that the Indians' problems with "choking" had anything to do with him. [If you won't acknowledge a problem, you sure as heck aint gonna fix it!! Maybe we should start a http://www.fireericwedge.com website (since Wedge seems to "have no clue" that the main problem is with him - in regard to the team regularly choking)!]

P.S.- If you "throw" at me, "What about 2007? He (and the Indians) didn't choke then!" A) Yes he did - in the last 3 games of the year vs. the Bosox B) Even if you want to argue that he DIDN'T choke last year, THAT WAS AN EXCEPTION!! HE'S CHOKED AWAY MANY MORE SEASONS THAN THE ONE (I.E.-IF I GRANT YOU THAT LAST SEASON WASN'T A "CHOKE") HE HASN'T! (CF. THE FIRST POST ON THIS THREAD - TO SEE DOCUMENTATION OF HIS MANY "CHOKE JOBS" OVER THE YEARS.)

[ken]

I see your points but at least you don't have a romeo on that team.

[WaitTillNextYear]

Anybody listen to Wedge's press conference? Someone actually stepped up and asked him about the expectations issue.

He said he thought they proved that last year, and here was part of his point (word for word).

"Our guys proved that they could handle that (< expectations) last year. Especially with the run we had in 05 and, you know, we didn't get it done the last week and everybody kept talking about it last year and our guys ran right through it and won it by 7 games. Nobody gave us a chance in hell against New York"

Nobody gave them a chance in hell. Which is true. It also means that there were NO expectations. Is he really THAT stupid that he can't put those 2 together for himself?

Same way nobody gave them a chance in hell against Boston. When they made it 2-1 it people started thinking they COULD do it. Once it went to 3-1 everyone knew they SHOULD do it. The pressure was now entirely on them to finish it off and they blew it.

How is it that some people still don't see this (or in Wedge's case, refuse to acknowledge it)?

[tonyc]

Anybody listen to Wedge's press conference? Someone actually stepped up and asked him about the expectations issue.

He said he thought they proved that last year, and here was part of his point (word for word).

"Our guys proved that they could handle that (< expectations) last year. Especially with the run we had in 05 and, you know, we didn't get it done the last week and everybody kept talking about it last year and our guys ran right through it and won it by 7 games. Nobody gave us a chance in hell against New York"

Nobody gave them a chance in hell. Which is true. It also means that there were NO expectations. Is he really THAT stupid that he can't put those 2 together for himself?

Same way nobody gave them a chance in hell against Boston. When they made it 2-1 it people started thinking they COULD do it. Once it went to 3-1 everyone knew they SHOULD do it. The pressure was now entirely on them to finish it off and they blew it.

How is it that some people still don't see this (or in Wedge's case, refuse to acknowledge it)?

"KILLER" OBSERVATION, Wait!!... I still contend that it was SHAPIRO'S MOVES (bringing Cabrera and Lofton into the "mix" that was floundering - along w/ an unexpected "monster" year by Fausto) that helped spark the Indians (and put them "over the top" ) to the 96 victories which brought them the Central Division championship last year. But, like you said, once in the playoffs, NOBODY EXPECTED THEM TO BEAT THE YANKEES and NOBODY (REALLY!) EXPECTED THEM TO BEAT THE BOSOX UNTIL THEY WERE UP 3-1 IN THE SERIES! So Wedge, in that press conference, UNWITTINGLY CALLED ATTENTION to his (and his team's) own penchant for PLAYING WELL WHEN THERE'S NO EXPECTATIONS and vice versa. (That one "got by me", dude ...glad somebody "picked up" on the tremendous IRONY of that statement! )

NOTE TO KEVIN KEANE: Hey Kevin, did Wedge's ironic statement (i.e.- that "Nobody gave a chance in hell against NY") "get by" you, too? (I suspect that it did!)

[TribefanstuckinMA]

I don't know what he said to the players when they had their closed door meeting the other day, but he'd better have that speech ready to use each and every time the team loses a game. Since the little Pow-Wow the Tribe won the next game (against Kansas, but it was a win, 5-4) and today they are showing what they really should be capable of. What did he say??? And...would it motive kids to do what their parents ask???

[tonyc]

...do you know what the word "intangible" means? Apparently not.

Let's see...when people say, that Ben Wallace brings "intangibles" to the Cavaliers, they don't say they can't describe what Wallace brings; they say that what he does for the Cavs doesn't show up in the stat sheet. Then they'll list some of the things he does for the Cavs that don't show up in the stat sheet like: Giving the Cavs extra possessions with "tip-backs", being an "enforcer" that comes to the aid of his teammates when players from other teams decide they want to get "physical" (i.e.- overly-physical) with the Cavs, etc., etc.

[tonyc]

Garko was just smooching Wedge's ass for some playing time on All Bets Are Off!!!

He did say one thing that was all too true. "Wedge has been the driving force behind everything going on here for 7 years."

Does Garko know the record of the Indians in the last 7 years, and how many failures and disappointing seasons? He sounded like he was trying to praise him, as if the results were actually good!

Ah, but if you read it with your other eye it could be interpreted as "we're screwed as long as Wedge is here because he plays his favorites and uses his less-favored players as whipping boys". It might have sounded like a compliment but since Wedge has pooped on Garko more than once he just might have said what he said with a different, hidden meaning...

Yeah Tribefan...is it just me or does Wedge hate Josh Barfield? He seemed to do well in the few times he was called on to do his job (when he was up here) but, next thing you know, Wedge calls up Valbeuna (who's not a good fielder like Barfield is) and gives him (what should have been) Barfield's PT. It's like Wedge has a grudge against Barfield for some unknown reason. It's like Wedge wants no more to do with Barfield and Valbuena is Wedge's newest "excuse"/ "reason" as to why we're not seeing Barfield anymore up here with the big club on any consistent basis. (Do you get that impression, too? You just watch...we trade Barfield (eventually) and, at some point down the line, he becomes an all-star 2nd baseman somewhere! P.S.- I hope it happens, too!! Barfield quietly takes all the crap that Wedge shovels in his direction and he (Barfield) never utters a word of protest (that I know of). Maybe when we trade away our second all-star 2nd basemen, then maybe Wedge apologists will finally realize that Wedge wasn't the great manager that they thought he was. Yet...in the meantime, the Indians will probably have wasted 10 years with this clown at the helm!!! )

[WaitTillNextYear]

This is the last post I will ever make about Eric Wedge.

I do have to thank him for 1 thing: without him I probably never would have had the incentive to come onto this message board. This topic was post #1 for me.

So thanks for that, Wedgie Poo

[Sara Tonyn]

This is the last post I will ever make about Eric Wedge.

I do have to thank him for 1 thing: without him I probably never would have had the incentive to come onto this message board. This topic was post #1 for me.

So thanks for that, Wedgie Poo

[Ernie Camacho]

I was just going to get around to reading this, but now I guess i don't have to.

[Mars83]

I agree with all of the above and could add more to support the firing of Wedge but, unfortunately, Wedge supporters will never see the light. Equally unfortunate is that Shapiro supporters suffer the same blindness.

So since Shapiro and Wedge are joined at the hip, neither one will be leaving anytime soon unless Dolan orders it.

And that ain't gonna happen unless a baseball miracle occurs.

P.S. Fire Skinner too. The Lofton screw-up is the most glaring example of Skinner's inability to know when to send runners home, but the truth is Skinner messes up all the time! Any 3B coach that repeatedly gets runners thrown out by 20 feet is clueless. He's costing the team too many precious runs. Hire Lofton to coach 3B.

Just because you didn't say it you just agreed to it. So with that Good bye Manny Acta.

Joey

[Sara Tonyn]

Joey --

I'll make only one more post to you about this. If you still don't get it, too bad.

Wedge's firing was based on SEVEN SEASONS worth of managing the Tribe.

Acta has been managing the Tribe for LESS THAN ONE HALF SEASON.

You have to give ANY manager longer than that to show what he can or can't do with a new team, in a new league, etc. I'm not suggesting Manny is the answer. I'm just saying it's ridiculous to judge him this soon.

As I said before, you're comparing 7 year old apples to 2 month old oranges.

Now I'm done for real with this thread. Go ahead and respond again cuz I'm sure you still don't get it. But good grief, please let this dead thread rest in peace. Move on already.

[Dnthateonthepronk]

Wow... we really had to dig this horse up? I thought that we were done beating it...

This thread is the cow from Me Myself, and Irene....it just wont die

[Mars83]

The reason it can't die because so much i recall from alot of people is being impatient and wants a win. So far the Indians are in a slump. Manny hasn't done anything abit different from Wedge.

The thing is Sara you don't get it. Those that bash Wedge blamed him for the outcome of every damn game of the 7 long seasons and came close in 2007. After the loss of the Red Sox it was blame Wedge. End of last Season blame Wedge. I expect by having a crappy April losing series and sweeped once would be just realizing Manny ain't the one to lead this team anywhere. Hell he couldn't lead the nationals out of the bottom for the seasons he managed that team.

Bringing this thread up from the dead makes the point Sara and to all. You want to blame the manager for a loss in every game either continue to do so or face the facts that it ain't the managers fault the team loses. It is the players fault that the team loses.

I know the Indians season is already over all due of lack of leadership. All due the players need to not depend on the ones slumping. Acta hasn't sent Sizemore and Pronk to minors So that way give the players that are performing get to play until those idiots get there heads together.

Demand for Manny's head or admit that the lose a game, series or be sweeped is fault of the players.

Joey

[Mars83]

Indians lost to a team that has the worst record in the Major Leagues.

Wedge lost his job because the players didn't do there jobs. 8-1 to the birds and the question is does Acta get blamed or the players?

Joey

[Ernie Camacho]

uh the players-- what do you imagine Acta could do here?

[Wahoo1324]

Those that bash Wedge blamed him for the outcome of every damn game of the 7 long seasons

BS Alert.